Te kōrero o Tamati , Tamati Davis' story
At the Tāne Ora conference, in June 2009, Tamati talked about his experience of being on One Heart, Many Lives programme and also in particular the challenges of staying on the programme. When the going gets tough and you fall off the wagon and how to get back on again, in terms of sticking to that health regime, fitness regime, exercise.
Tell people who haven't heard about you, how did you get into One Heart Many Lives and your journey thus far. It’s been now two and a half years on this, three?
Just under three. Actually, it was a fluke. I got put out of work because I was overweight basically, I was overweight and I was sick. And I was actually sitting in, what they call WINZ now, Social Welfare, and I was talking to my case manager, and there was a lady behind me, and she (Karen) was the head of the WINZ office, the big boss, and she was eavesdropping in on my conversation. As soon as I finished my interview with my case manager she tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to come and sit with her, so I did. And I think somebody got in touch with her, [to see] if there were any volunteers that would like to tell their story of what was happening. And I gave her my name and my number. I think it was ten o'clock when I saw here, and by two o'clock I had a young girl come knock on my door.
Person to Person?
Yes, person to person, a young girl knocked on my door with a tape deck and she asked me if I was willing to tell my story of my heart condition, my diabetes - so I did! She sat with me for good hour and a half chatting, and then she said, "Thank you,". Before she went, she asked if I would mind if she came back later with a video camera. And I thought this sounds pretty good!.
I actually came home from work later and when I pulled up in my drive there were about 12 people there and they had one of those big shoulder cameras with those big furry mic’s. Well, I backed down my drive and was about to take off.
Very scary!
Before I did though, a young lady stepped out on the side of the road and stopped me and told me to come in. Basically it started from there. It was good to hear that there were three of us from Flaxmere. It was the first DVD actually - with me, AB Mitchell, and Hirini Price. They just wanted to ask me questions about my heart condition, and what I was looking for in the future.
And basically, because I was that sick, I couldn't actually see for myself.
I'd been in the hospital, and the doctor had told me straight to my face that if I didn't do anything about my weight I was going to be lucky to live three months. They told me straight I could die. And then I thought, "Jesus that's one shock"! And the next shock was when they told me that I was a diabetic and I had poor circulation in one leg.
And the same thing happened again - I was told if I didn't lose any weight, and if I didn't do anything about it, further on down the line I could lose my leg. And then it got worse: I had, straight after that, my nephew sit next to me and he was 10 at the time, and he asked me if I was going to make his 21st.
So basically I had all these things piling up and up and up on me. You know, I really thought I was bullet proof, I was tough as nails. There wouldn't have been a problem in the world for me, if a car was rushing at my niece for me to step in front of the car and tip it over, you know, I thought I was that kind of guy.
What I didn't know, till I found out later on, was that my sisters used to take turns to sit, to lie next to me when I slept. And I had that condition called sleep apnoea. That meant I used to stop breathing while I was sleeping and they slap me on the shoulder to start me breathing again.
I'm not too sure how long they were doing that, but in the end they just got sick of it, and they just picked me up, almost dragged me, and did everything they could to get me into the doctors to have a check up.
Women do seem to be quite a powerful force in Māori mens health?
Yes, I was bought up the old way, respect to all my elders, respect my nannies more. Well they dragged me up to the doctor's, and my doctor saw me sitting in the waiting room. He just got me straight into his office, did a test where he pushed his finger into my tummy and I had a dent stay there for, God it was a long time, 7, 8, 9 minutes. He didn't even look at me, he just phoned the ambulance and took me straight to the hospital. And in the hospital they had me hooked up to all the wires, and I had a few tubes coming out. And I was turning a few faces because a lot of them were wondering why I'd never had a stroke, or never had a heart attack. They were taking my blood sugar readings and none of them were under 20 when they were taking them.
They were sky high?
Yes, you know my blood pressure was through the roof. They had problems finding veins, and then I had another embarrassing moment, where they couldn't find any scales in the hospital, big enough to weigh me. So they had me on my bed, and they wheeled me into the elevator while people, visitors were still there, took me downstairs, straight past main reception where everybody was there and wheeled me through the kitchen, while the kitchen was running at full steam, and took me outside and weighed me on the outside scales.
I'm a proud man, but that was embarrassing. I think just that part alone hurt me - it was the hardest thing. And basically, that was where my story started. Before that, the doctor had told told me I only had thing... and basically I had everything! I had high cholesterol, I had high blood pressure, I had stuff wrong with me I didn’t know anything about... Lipids and my H1BAC all sky high, through the roof. My sugar levels were too high, but you know, being a tough Māori boy, half the stuff the doctors were saying to me I didn't understand.
And if it wasn't for one nurse actually, and she was a Pākehā nurse, she actually sat down next to me and asked me what I understood and what I didn't. And I told her I didn't understand anything. I told her I didn't understand any of the pills they were giving me, and they were shovelling loads of pills down me. They were telling me; oh this pill is for your blood pressure. And I was going “why is my blood pressure that high” and nobody would say anything. This pill is for your heart, “oh what's wrong with my heart”, they didn't tell me.
And yes, it was thankfully a nurse who told me, you know this is for your blood pressure, and it’s high because your heart is working so hard. And the doctors were going on about this cardiomyopathy, and cardio vascular disease. I knew none of that. And basically this nurse turned around and told me straight to my face, your heart is big, it’s sick and it’s dying: straight just like that, and in words that I could understand.
And I was in hospital, I think a month. I got out and that’s when I had to give up work, because I was too big. And that was that story from WINZ.
Then the WINZ story and who was this lady that did come to your house and knock on your door. Was she from the One Heart Many Lives?
I'm not too sure, I think she was a.....what do I call it, a gatherer of the information. I actually can't remember her name.
So that must have been the lowest of the low, being told that at 37, you could possibly die if you didn't make some changes.
No, I took that on the nose, not a problem. I took that I was losing my leg, I took that on the nose too, not a problem: but it was my nephew asking if I was going to make it to his 21st, that was a killer.
It was knowing that I've got to live 11 more years, even though some of these doctors had told me I was barely going to last 3 months! That hurt, that was a killer and not only that, but also seeing a lot of my family around my bed. And trying to do anything they could to help me but they couldn't, because I was in that state, I couldn't do anything to help them, to alleviate they were going through.
And also not on just that emotional front, and also you were a male provider in that family I'm guessing for all those years?
Yeah, as I said my Dad left and, basically I went to work. I worked my bum off, I helped my Mum, and all my brothers and sisters through school. I was one of the main providers until my sisters were old enough to help me out and then they went to work, and basically we bought up our two younger brothers and sister.
And it sounds like you've got quite a bit of influence over your nephew and maybe your nieces as well?
Yeah, I have no children of my own, so literally I support my nephews and nieces.
You will be there for the 21st in a few years time?
Yeah. And for, I think it was about 6 months, it was tough as hell. I had my uncles pass away; I had my Dad pass away. I had different things happen to me before then to make me go that way.
And your Dad and your uncle, of course, died with heart disease?
Yeah, yeah. My uncle was a big man, when he passed away he was 37 stone. My Dad, I always thought, even though he left, he was a pillar. He was one of the strongest guys I knew, was my Dad.
Physically, physically strong?
Strong and in stature, I think I got his no bull attitude from him. Yeah, I got that off him. I also got his temper, which I don't like, but hopefully, I've also got my Mum's gentleness. She is the one that can snap me out of my temper with the snap of a finger or a word. It brings me right down.
They're a pretty powerful, formidable forces aren't they, women?
And you know, just even the ladies from PHARMAC, you know Marama, she's a bit infectious, got this thing that goes around her, you know, kind of snaps you up and drags you along with her. And Karen, every time I need any help, basically, I text Karen and she gives me a call. Karen Vercoe. Moana and you know a lot of the ladies I’ve met, really, really strong ladies, and my trainer.
Tell me about your trainer
My trainer her name is Heather Skipworth. I always say to everybody that basically she saved my life. She doesn't like the limelight really. Everything I give, I give to her, but she always turns it back to me saying it took me to walk through the door to ask for help. I sat in the car park for almost three hours, looking at the door to this gym, trying to get the courage just to walk through the door. And it took me bloody ages.
It’s a big thing?
I got this thing called the look, and it’s been happening to me for quite a while, especially when I was bigger. You walk into a medical office; the doctor will look up at you and then look straight back down at the books. You walk into a shop and that person will look at you and turn around and look straight back down at the desk, it’s like a hopeless look. I got it from a dietician at the Hawkes Bay hospital of all places.
It’s one of those looks where they look at you, they judge you from what you are and look straight back down, they don't even give you half a second. It’s just a look that strikes you out.
But not this Heather?
Basically when I walked through the door I didn't even say anything, she just stood up and grabbed my by the hand, took me to a seat, sat me down, asked me how she could help me and I just told her that if I didn't lose any weight I was going to die.
And then basically, I think she took it as a challenge as well. And she put a lot of time into it, and she just wouldn't let me give up. I had a couple of friends who started at the gym with me at the start, on this journey and they wouldn't give up on me either. I tell everybody my first month, you know, it was shattering. I didn't know how unfit I was.
As Karen and Marama were saying when they bought me down here for the One life, One Heart Many Lives opening, it was before I even went on this kaupapa, I looked like I was going to die, and then they made me walk a kilometre and a half to the restaurants and it was so bad, in the end I caught a taxi 500 metres.
You were struggling?
Yeah, and basically... I always grant my trainer for... but she did a really good thing for me, she broke away from me. She didn't want me to rely on her all the time. She told me straight to my face I shouldn't be doing that. "It’s time you stood on your own two feet and took your own future in your hands."
And you became a little bit dependent maybe?
I think I did, and I think that is one of the best things. I still go to see her, she still thrashes me every time I see her or if I need a thrashing or if I need a talking to. It’s always good for me to fall back onto her.
So who does your training now?
Me.
On your own you've got this regime and you know exactly what you've got to do?
A lot of the stuff, I'm still learning, I still read books to help me with my training. You know I'm not infallible: I still fall off the horse. Some weeks I just don't feel like going to the gym, but I need to just hop out of bed and see if I can bend my leg around and kick my own arse to go there.
You know, nobody is forcing food into my mouth; nobody is forcing me to sleep in. And I think that is what she instilled in me, Heather, was, "everything is up to you. You know you can ask for all the help you can get, but if you are not going to commit to that help, it’s a waste of time."
Everybody tells me, oh so you eat all this health food, nah: I still eat Kentucky Fried Chicken, I still eat my fish and chips, I know it’s bad for me, but my trainer said at least once a week give yourself a treat. If you are going to starve yourself of that item, you are going to binge on that one sooner or later.
So you really crave for it?
Yeah, and you're going to binge bad. If you want your piece of Kentucky Fried Chicken, go have it and then just hop back on that horse.
What about the gym buddies that you started with, you said they kept you going as well as Heather; are they still around too, the gym buddies?
My gym mates were my best friend and his girlfriend. They stuck with me for 6 months and then one got a better opportunity to go to Rotorua, and I thought, shucks I'm going to find it a little bit harder this time. But what happened was, because I was losing some weight and I was actually fitting into my brothers clothes and he got a bit jealous, so he started to tag along with me to the gym and every body knows what brothers are, every thing is a challenge and "I can do better!" And for a year, if he was biking, I wanted to bike faster, and if I biked faster, he would bike faster. It was basically totally war for me and him.
Sibling rivalry at it’s best?
And it was great. Then when my brother started slacking off cause he's got a family, I got the opportunity to start taking people for their own workouts, and that is where I started getting inspiration from. Big people would come and ask me to take them for a work out. And I would go, “what are you asking me for, I'm not a trainer, have I got personal trainer printed across my forehead?”. And a lot of the answers I got back was, because you were just as big as me.
And so I tell everybody, whoever wants to jump on the waka, it isn't going to be easy guys. It’s going to be as tough as nails. Don't think because I lost all this weight, that I had it easy. Half the time I wanted to go home and cry.
And it’s still hard, or not as hard?
No, it’s still hard. Every day is a struggle for me, not only in the exercise department, but the kai that's around. You know every street you go down: a cafe, McDonalds, Pizza Hutt, it’s everywhere, you know it’s staring me in the face: bakeries, pies, every window you go past you will see an advertisement of food on the.
A lettuce salad sandwich just doesn't cut it?
Nah, not when you see like a chicken salad sandwich or steak and eggs plastered on the wall. And because I was bought up the old way by my nannies, actually by everybody. What we put in front of you, I want you to finish.
You've had 40 years of those habits, it’s hard to undo those 40 years?
Like my nieces and nephews, and when I tell them to finish what's in front of them, and they say "I'm full uncle”. Then I know it kind of falls back on to me, so all right, if she's hungry, she’ll come back. And even for me it’s a hard habit to break.
So, that is talking about re-educating the next generation by not giving them the same messages that you had in your head. Changing the messages?
And I'm still learning, I'm still an uncle at heart. I take chocolate home for my nieces, cake, and it doesn't matter how old I get, I'm still learning all the time, I shouldn't be doing that. Stuff for my nieces and my nephews. Maybe it’s because I want them to remember that this uncle is the good uncle.
At the moment, I take ladies for boxing. I take step classes, I take pump classes, I take Taichi. I take taichi for some kaumātua classes, oh, what else do I do?
And the boxing?
Yeah, but you know it started with one lady I took. I was actually punching the bags, and a couple of guys wanted someone to hold the pads, so I was holding the pads, and basically it went from there, and it just went bigger and bigger. At the moment I take 8 or 9 ladies a day for boxing.
So a lot of your life’s at the gym isn't it?
Yeah, basically. Gym and walking to the gym. I do three part-time gyms and I work at one, which is my only paying job. I walk to my next one because there are people there that I really like. And I walk to my third one, because there are ladies there. They really want to lose weight and a lot of my time is free. I only get paid for 5 hours a day at my first gym.
You've got all these woman hanging about you, wanting you to teach them boxing?
It’s quite amazing and I tell you what, I've got these ladies, some of them are big ladies, and they go hard on the boxing when I train them. And we have people looking at them and as soon as they finish, I have some of the guys come over and some more ladies come over, and ask, "Hey how do we jump onto this?" And that’s how it’s happened.
So no time to eat some days?
Because I'm dedicating a lot of my time to a lot of the people that I'm helping, I'm falling behind on a lot of my stuff. You know, I'm up at five o'clock in the morning. It’s a bit too early for me to have breakfast, you know I hit the road; I open up our gym at six. I work to twelve; I might pick up breakfast half past nine. As soon as I finish there, at 12, I'm walking to my next gym, it takes me 45 minutes. I get there; I'm straight into it taking a few of the ladies for their boxing session. But the time I get to have lunch it’s three o'clock. As soon as it hits three o'clock, I'm walking to the next gym, yeah, and it’s like that. And a lot of the people now are telling me that I have to get certain times.
You're giving a lot to other people?
Yeah, and not as much as I used to, to myself.
I guess if you're an unselfish person it’s hard to start being selfish and thinking, hang on a minute I need to do this for me first before I do that, hard to be thinking that?
I find it quite difficult actually. And I've never been a money person, you know, if I had half the chance, if I could live on love, I would. I don't charge any of my ladies for my time. It’s just something that I enjoy doing and because of that, I wanted to learn a bit more about health, so I went to my hauora Māori course.
Tell me about your studies because I know this is giving you the springboard to go and do some studies. So you are doing it in the hauora and also te reo Māori, koro mai, tell me about that?
Well, coming on all these wānanga, One Heart Many Lives, and working in the gym, I thought, maybe I'd better learn something about health. I'm trying to teach people health and I don't even know it. So I decided to tackle Māori health. And it’s opened my eyes up to a lot. A lot of it is way over my head, but I have a lot of good tutors, a lot of good friends that want to help me out and they want me to succeed at it. So I'm giving it my all. And I've also thought,I really need to understand Māori more. I don't care how much I understand, I just need to understand a bit more. So I'm doing full time Māori studies as well
Now tell me in the course of the Hauora study you've discovered Mason Durie’s philosophy on the whare tapa whā. Korero mai about that?
We were doing an assignment and we had go out and study te whare tapa whā or te wheke. Te whare tapa whā is by Mason Durie based on a whare or a house; Te wheke, based on the octopus. Well, I was finding it hard to associate te whare tapa whā, couldn't figure out a way to word it. My tutor at the time told me to pick something that I could base it around. So basically, I based it around my body, and I based it around my journey, te whare tapa whā is tapa tinana, tapa wairua, tapa hinengaro and tapa whānau, and I went, oh yeah, this will be good, and I went tapa hinengaro, I was really shy and well, shy is mind, and I thought it took me a lot to actually go out there and ask for help, and find help.
And it took Marama to get me the help and that was an amazing story in itself. And then tapa tinana, well that’s my strength side, that is me, I have to go the gym, I have to try as hard as I can. It’s a waste of time my trainer putting in as much effort, and I'm not applying myself. I'm not giving her my everything: she deserves my everything. You know she deserves everything I got, so I did.
My tapa wairua was a spiritual one. My spirit was down, it was out, and my tinana side helping my wairua side out. I started to get that balance back and it maybe started to radiate out, that wairua that spiritual side.
It worked for you?
Yeah it worked for me. And then my tapa whānau side, I thought was my strongest side because my family, and everybody that’s been around me so far. Marama gives me that little bit, Karen gives me that little bit, and all the ladies I meet, and I leach certain parts off them. My trainer you know, I leached her dedication to the people that she is trying to help. You know my mum, typical mum, can leach the love off your mum.....
My sisters, that support side my sisters got, where they dragged me to the doctor. All my nephews and nieces, that made me, and basically that whānau side I thought was my strongest side because I just wanted to get everything that I could out of everybody.
Tell me about Marama: you said there was a story in itself there before you moved on there?
I think it was straight after we had the grand opening. She actually came down the Hawkes Bay they were doing a One Heart Many Lives Conference, at the Pettigrew Arena; she invited me, AB Mitchell and Hirini Price to it. They played the DVD, we were in the room, oh, I don’t know, 120 other professionals. They had doctors, nurses, dieticians, health professionals from different Hauora's and everything. Out of those 120 professionals after seeing this DVD, not one of them came to see us.
So, that was that look again, kind of magnified times 120 people?
Yeah,I think that is what we were there for. You know, maybe if some of those health professionals, if they were unsure, just to come and ask us. Marama could see how sick I was, she actually went around to different health professionals asking somebody to help me. I think it was 7 people before she found someone who wanted to take me on. And then, maybe because I was just too stubborn and got sick and tired of all the looks, I just thought, ah stuff, I put everything into it. And so, close to three years now, I gave up work, just tossed it in. I always say I had a very well paid job, three cars, you know, I gave them all to my sisters.
This is your focus now?
Yeah. That is all I wanted to do. And I thought if I gave away my cars that means I got to walk.
I would ask my sisters for a lift in their, in my car that I gave them, and they would say, no, tough, walk. And that was my determination. I bought me a push bike, I biked, I broke my bike, actually, I wore my bike out, actually. Yeah, it was certain things like that. But I lived on the benefit and off my back for two years, just to see how far I could go.
So when you look at yourself in the future, five years time what can you see?
Oh I don't... it’s the same reason why I carry my only remaining picture of me when I was big in my wallet. That’s the only side I want to see of me. Everybody says: oh brilliant, you've lost all this weight, what does it feel like to be smaller? You know, when I was bigger I never, ever saw myself as big, and now I don't even see myself. All I saw in the mirror was Tamati, I didn't see myself as fat Tamati, I didn't see myself as skinny Tamati: I saw myself as Tamati.
I still see myself as Tamati now, I suppose when I get that realisation that I've done all this other stuff, everybody calls it amazing, I call it something I had to do. I might fall off the horse, same thing. Everybody thinks it’s amazing thing that I've lost over 100 kilos. I actually don't see it as amazing, I see it as something that I had to do, you know, weighing 235 kilos when I was in hospital, to getting down to 117.6 before I went over to Australia and stuck on 9 kilos
Any advice for people who might be in the same situation as you, if they ask for advice?
I tell everybody it perseverance, perseverance, yeah, oh shucks, what else is it? I’m not quite sure; actually I'm still struggling with it. I just had a doctor now ask me advice. I didn't know what to say to a doctor.
He's asking you for advice?
Yeah.
That would be a nice position to be in, you the expert?
You know I have another lady. Works in the DHB in Hastings, her name is Ana Apatu. She gets me, she calls me up, “Tamati, what are you doing?"
"I'm doing nothing at the moment".
"Would you like to come to EIT with me and come speak to the nurses?”
So I go to EIT with her, and I'm talking to all these nurses and they ask me all these questions. And she calls me up again, “Tamati, we've got all these young doctors, would you like to come and talk to all these young doctors?”
So you’re having to conquer public speaking, which is a great fear for most of us?
It’s taken me a long time, you know I still get nervous. But because I'm so passionate about it now, it’s not as it used to be. You know, talking to young doctors, when Ana came and got me, I thought that might have been three or four, but there were 19, 20 of them, all young. And when I walked through the door they were talking about how they could get Māori men to the doctors. When Ana did her spiel, they looked like they were interested and when she played my DVD and I got up to talk, it was really, really embarrassing. I can only answer questions for me.
You can't be a spokesperson for all Māori?
Yeah and that is what I tell them. I will answer any question you want me to, but if I don't know the answer I will tell you. I am not the answer to all Māori problems, or to all Māori men's problems. This has been only my journey, you know. I try to tell them all the time, I'm not the answer to every question, I don't know every answer.
Nevertheless, you seem to be hugely inspirational, it seems to me, from the exposure that I've had, hugely inspirational. I want to mihi to you for that kōrero that you've given us that we are going to use on the website because it’s a long hard hīkoi that you're doing.
Yeah it’s never-ending. You know people think it’s getting easier, no it doesn't, it gets harder and harder. You know, I'm stuck in this rut at the moment where I'm stuck in my weight, between 120 and 130, it goes up and down up and down. Everybody says, “oh bro, everybody hits that plateau”. My trainer turned around and told me straight to my face, there is no such things as plateau. You’re just not trying hard enough.
So they do push you, the trainer does?
Your body gets used to a certain way of training, once it gets used to a certain way of training, you have to pick it up to go that next level above it. Yeah, there is no such thing as a plateau, and then she says stop putting food in your mouth
She is tough but practical?
Yeah, she tells me no lies! Yeah, sometimes when I go see her she tells me off, but I need it.
And they are obviously meant to be in your path at this point in your life, probably there’s a point there, they just need to be there. I just want to thank you for the sharing.
No, that is fine, I find it quite pleasurable telling the story now. People get different things from it. I might change somebody's mind. You know I might talk to a room of 50 people, actually, I've talked to a room of 500 people, about all sorts of things. But I mightn't touch everybody in the room - but all I need to touch is one person!
And you might save a life?
Yeah and maybe that person might touch a couple more at their workplace, or in their family, you know and well look there’s five people I've touched. And maybe those two might be able to branch off and touch a friend. In the end I might only get one of that audience, but hopefully in a year's time I might pick up 40% of them, and in two years time I might have the whole lot of them So, I do not mind telling my story, I will tell it anywhere I have to, if they want to listen to it.